The Tragically Hip (Gord Downie)

0:00Where are you? I'm in Vancouver, staring out at the reconstruction of the roots of BC place, I think. Oh, nice. And yeah, I'm about to head over to rehearsal for getting ready for tomorrow night to kick off the tour here. Right, so it starts tomorrow. Yes. And you're back on the road. I'm sure you're very used to it at this point in your life, but another month and a half ahead of you. Yeah, we've been out of sort of, kind of keeping one country in Western schedule over the summer. Weekend festivals. And I was, that's pretty civilized the way those guys do it. Well, that seems to be the future of the biz, right? Like that's how it goes now in the summers for most people. It's not really spending, I'm sure like you used to do months on the road at a time. It's now just big festivals on the weekends.

0:46Yeah, yeah, and it's, this will be more of a, I guess, proper or an even proper way of doing it. Right. Letting, you know, we'll be in a theater. We'll be able to sort of let our show kind of breathe and unfold without the next band breathing down our neck. Right, right. What is the tour? So is it just, you guys, do you have an opening band or how is it working? It's going to be us. Nice. Yeah, I just want to make that decision. And again, just really this idea of just making the stage our personal little playroom and really stretching out and making it very comfortable, but also, you know, kind of, well, anyway, I don't need to get into that.

1:34The idea is about just the rock show is, you know, it's become a little cliched in some regards, just the various machinations you go through in the evening. My real, you know, my real hope is to kind of alleviate some of the subconsciousness or self-consciousness and vulnerability that goes on for audience members, you know, that people really feel a part of it. You mentioned that, that makes an interesting point. Being on stage in front of people, that must be a very self-conscious experience, too, thinking people are staring at me the whole time. People are looking at me and whatever I do, a room of hundreds of people or thousands of people at times are, you know, hanging on everything I do. What's that like on the opposite end?

2:21Yeah, well, it's also compounded or made more paradoxical by the fact that you asked for it. Yeah, well, true. You danged your fork against your wine glass and cleared your throat and stood up and announced that you had something to say, which is music, which is art in a lot of cases. You can create demand, however you like, but there really isn't demand other than that, which comes from within. We are in this weird position where you're looking at yourself from within and from without, and it can be kind of crazy making and definitely nervous making. And it's with those, you know, those feelings that you proceed and create something like a hybrid between, you know, the self-conscious shy introvert and the show-off.

3:13And ultimately, I mean, I just looked at how in role for Johnny Cash for inspiration. These are guys that just, you know, giver, giver, you know, they're not there to inspire pity. They're there to let people, you know, have a good time. People want to see you have any good time and I'll do whatever it takes. Yeah, well, you seem to. Your stage shows are legendary. It's like you fall into a trance almost when you get on stage. Yeah, well, it's something about giving in to passion, you know, and you give yourself over to it. It's, you know, you don't have a lot of control and a lot of people aren't comfortable giving up control. But, you know, I prefer words like faith and trust over words like control.

4:02So I just have faith and trust that I'll land in a good spot. But generally I am, yeah, making it up as I go along. Are there other parts of your life where you fall into this trance? Like when you're mowing the lawn or something, you start dancing around? I hope not. You know, I could get very passionate about cutting the lawn. Yeah. And some might say that I do. I'm sure the neighbors do. Yeah. Wow. What a pattern you've done this week. It might be nicer than last week. Back to the show. What is a setlist like? Is it, I assume you're playing most of the new record, but are you delving into other solo stuff? Are you playing hip songs, covers? Yeah, it'll be a healthy compliment of new material.

4:48And then, yeah, drawing from the last two records, no hip songs. How come? That must be a conscious decision not to do that. Well, yeah, I mean, I would do covers too. You know, I don't know. Consciousness, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, it's not where I'm at. Does it not feel, does it feel wrong to play them without the other guys there? No, it's not. I just came off the road with the hip. We just did, you know, we just did a tour where we looked at every dark corner of our catalog. Mm hmm. Pulled at every song that we'd ever, even songs we've never played live, like the bear, for instance. Right. And made a point of trying to like, play that. So I feel like I kind of did that already. I don't know. I don't know.

5:33I don't know. I don't know that we bring anything new to any of those songs. No, no, no. Any new relevance or any new kind of perspective. But it's more like that. It's just an artistic decision. I feel like these solo records are almost an excuse for you to work with Julie. Julie, do I wrong for people who don't know? I mean, she worked on music at work and then now she's on all the records. And it's, well, it's not her band, I guess, that's playing with you. But it kind of is. Well, the dinner is really in our three pieces in their own right. All these years in Josh as much as the oldest Toronto friend who probably got me to do coke machine. Well, he told me I'd encourage me to do it and kept me at it, you know.

6:21So but Julie, no, I mean, I've always, Julie and I go way back from when Eric's trip, we're touring with the hip and she had our first baby. And I was about, we were about to have ours and so we would just sort of talk babies backstage. And I think our voices sound really good together. I risk of sounding a modest. I know I always love what she does and I love her whole approach and her sensitivity. And she's, you know, a lot of people don't know that she broke her ankle this summer. We've got the folks that's well two days later. She's making one of the toughest people in the business. You know, and her music wouldn't get that from listening to her. But she's tough. She's hardcore. She's hardcore.

7:07Do you prefer, do you prefer, are you playing guitar for this stuff on stage? Yeah, yeah, entirely. And I got the Kelly out, you know, so you know, once you've sort of plugged in all our trip guitars, that's another love, right? I don't, for whatever reason, I don't really do that in the hip sort of covered or sort of hallowed ground or something. But, you know, I love plugging in and playing electric. I love playing with these guys. It's, you know, it's all, it's all like that. Learning and just learning a ton always did. And that's probably, you know, the real underlying allure of it. Fertile ground for a guy that's like me that, you know, likes adventure. Is there a comfort level with playing with a guitar?

7:53I know a lot of performers who are guitar players, whenever they have to put that guitar down, they feel a lot more self-conscious on stage because they're naked. I could understand not, I mean, I'm holding onto that neck as though if I let go, I would afford afters, you know. And I'm getting, you know, I was saying to Josh, I mean, I'm always playing it to just the outer limits of my ability. Some would say, you know, it doesn't get that high. But I am just playing for everything I've got and I really enjoy that. I love, it's very difficult, you know. But I think that's what I like about it too. You know, but I guess you're right. Some would say without the guitar, it's difficult. So I guess as long as you're up there, you know, pushing it, pushing yourself to the limit,

8:39then you know, then you're probably, you're on the right track. Let's move from the stage show to the record, the grand bounce, and working with Chris Walla for the first time. He's by far my favorite producer on the planet. I mean, you've worked with everyone, most recently, Bob Rock. How does a process working with someone like Chris differ than Bob Rock? Because they must have different approaches to music. Well, you know, I probably, you know, they definitely might help you up towards music and what one should expect. What shouldn't what shouldn't we tolerate?

9:26Sounds cryptic, but experience by making a record. You know, but it requires a lot of hard work. But in a lot of the work, people wouldn't they wouldn't necessarily assume is hard work. But you know, keeping keeping guile and keeping sort of politics and keeping things out of the studio that have no place there. That's that's hard work. Be keeping people remembering, you know, how joyful it is. I mean, Chris Walla produces mixes, records, all those death cab records, and he's in the band. Right.

10:11I should tell you something because that never happens. Yeah. In my experience, because control is this commodity that, you know, is this thing that people cling to and run to and hide behind. And frankly, there's no place for control in a studio or an trust. Those are the things, you know, those are the paramount goals and ideas that you have to go for. Anyone can get control. You know, the faith and trust. And you know, and that's what happened with Bob Rock with me. And that's certainly what I was Chris Walla. So Aaron, you make sure that you're ready and agile and nimble, you know, of faith and

10:59trust. It's a thrilling free fall into those words. I don't know if you're in this process yet. I mean, I'm sure your heads wrapped around this tour and rehearsing and promoting this record. But would you give that faith and trust to Chris for the next hip record? Is that something you're thinking about? I wouldn't wish that I'm a worst enemy. I don't know. You know, I think Sinclair should do the next hip record. Then you're keeping the control in the band almost. You're not giving it up to outside forces. And that's a way different thing to do for a record. No, not control. Faith and trust. Sorry. Trust and Sinclair to do a great job for us. And then that initially, that ultimately would lead great dialogue and healthy dialogue

11:46about the work, about the art that we're making together. And maybe even get that dialogue to get fractious. So K2, that's good. That's better than the silence. Right. Well, it shows people care, right? Yeah. You know, I think that that came to me and I didn't flow to that to anybody. But, you know, I think that's where they go there. That's what's needed there. Again, using that death cab model. Because I think having chosen to work, faith and trust, that's all bands are selling that. If they're faith and trust in each other, that's all people are buying.

12:33Right. Writing for this record. I'm sure a fan and a listener might think differently. But how does Gord Downey feel about the writing process for this record as opposed to the writing process with the hip? Is it songs that you feel aren't right for the tragically hip? Or they just happen to be songs that are written on the break? And these are the songs you're writing now, so they come out on your record. So I'm pretty catch-as-catch-can. I just do it every day anyway. Probably because I need my kids to see me doing that. I'm to be an accurate portrayal of what this life actually is. And, you know... Are they musical? Yeah. Yeah, they're into it. They all have their things. I guess, you know, again, if this is the life they want, the image of the old man hunched

13:28over a bunch of papers strewn everywhere in a week light is probably their image. And that's what they're... They'd be signing on for more than the footlights and the glory. Right. But anyway, yeah. So I do it every day, again, to make sure that I'm just sort of agile and nimble and just moving the art sticks forward a little bit, only probably from my own edification and anything else. And it just keeps me from falling into weird traps. And so I just get it up there. You know, I use it up. I was running in cardboard, so I don't save the thing for later. I don't get into sort of internal debates about what song is for what. And I'll save this one for there because that's just all kind of arrogant.

14:13Anyway, to assume that you're even going to be here next week to, you know... Yeah. You might get it out there. So I do that. And that serves me fine and sort of it's a process that I can recognize. The East Wind, a song we play here on the station a lot. I find it interesting you call it the laziest wind. I hear a farmer told that to you. Yeah. You have a friend of mine getting it down in my mind's notebook. You know, it was me well enough by now.

15:01In the same business, how so if he's a farmer in your musician? I'm a farmer too, man. Are you at heart or do you actually have a farm and you go out there and plow the fields? No. They don't let me near the heavy machinery. The planting of the seeds, the metaphorical... I see what you're saying. Filling of the earth. I see what you're saying. Harvesting of the bounty. Yes. Sorry, I'll stop. That's all good. What are you reading now? What's a good book people should know? I'm reading this new book by Jonathan friends and actually called Freedom. It's a door stopper by the guy that wrote the correction. I don't recommend it to anybody. I can't put it down.

15:46I think... Do you read Bob Lefshitz? I think that's the book he's talking about a lot recently. Lefshitz? Yeah. No. No. Sorry, I think he's been promoting the book for a little while. Who he is, but Bob Lefshitz. No, he was in the cover of Time was Jonathan friends and he was great buddies with... What's his face, David Foster Wallace. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, the book is just this sort of withering portrayal of this Minnesota family. And of course, it's nothing about a Minnesota family. It's sort of all about us. You know, in that way that all these great American writers can do. Yeah. It's tough, you know.

16:34I posted on my Facebook today that I was talking to you and I said, you know, anyone have any questions for Gordon? Somebody said, well, what are his thoughts on writing a book? I know you're a songwriter and you tend to use songs as your outlet and you put out the poetry book as well. But what about a novel? Has that ever crossed your mind? Yeah. Well, I mean, sure. I mean, it's definitely a walk around all day with an eye and a nose for premises. You know, and things that, you know, with the an odd twist might make for a compelling story. But yeah, it would take a lot. And I had a great admiration for it. But yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say really.

17:24I just feel like the little idea is that a group of you won't let go. And that's generally what I do. I just listen to those ideas and follow them. And if they don't let go, I stay with them. So if that's something that happens, that's what would have to happen and just be an idea that just sort of won't let me go. And that hasn't happened yet? I would do this. It sort of is happening, I think. I don't know. But not to stay tuned, I suppose. Oh, there's a scoop. We might just be getting a novel out of you. I know. And then reading this book, you know, definitely makes you want to put your pen down. Yeah, I know. I know that feeling. Some things are just too good. Tell me about Waterkeeper. David Suzuki was on the show yesterday. He was talking about how there are now books given out to fishermen for when you catch a

18:09fish. They tell you what chemicals are in that fish. And he never expected Canada or Canada's waters to get to that level. And I know you're very involved with Waterkeeper. Well, Waterkeeper about to unveil a database that would allow you to access information at the touch of a button about your drinking water, your fishing water, your swimming, your beach. And I think that's what's needed, just a more intimate dialogue, you know, just more intimacy with our water. You know, interestingly, Waterkeeper dealt with water quality issues forever. And last week it was reported that, you know, I think since the 50s, the amount of water we have has gone down 30 odd percent or something. And that got more attention than I've seen in years.

18:58People, you know, maybe just not really paying attention about water quality, always assuming that their water is going to be fine. When you start talking about water disappearing, it really gets people's attention. But ultimately, I think, if you can't swim in your local water body, you can't drink the water from it, you can't eat the fish from it, then you are being underserved by your government, by people that are supposed to be looking out for you. And then when if you look at it, that calls you and you go to find out a little bit more about it, you'll be more galled by how little acts you have to the table where they are discussing your pollution future.

19:43It's the challenge is to not get cynical, but to remain vigilant. So with those, you guys say, yeah, that's a bit of a, it's a bit disheartening and heartbreaking that it's come to this. But I think people need to know a little bit. And in every community everywhere in this country, there is an issue right now where someone is putting something in your water that they're not supposed to be putting in there. It's illegal. It's just a law on the books. You're not telling people to be, I don't care what telling people to be less bad or drive a different car. You know, until we take these big polluters to task just to do their part and live up to a law which is 100 years old, the rest is just.

20:35It's sad. But it's, I feel like we're always going to have issues like that, that there's always, you know, it just makes you mad. It's like everything that happened with the financial crisis last year. It just, it pisses you off, but there's not much you can really do at the end of the day. Yeah. Well, you can certainly get rid of it. So Paul, you know, notion that the government is your ally. Yeah. Okay. These great social changes throughout time and history have been not been enacted by politicians. Politicians get on board when it's politically expedient. There's no reelection. Yeah. When it's the right thing, you know, for them to do, you seem to be doing that they're not initiating. That's not the job they're in. Is that something you'd go into? Have you ever considered that politics?

21:20No. Never. No. No, I, you know, I just, you give up too much for the party. Yeah, fair enough. You know, you just, you just do. Unfortunately, it'd be more than I'd be willing to give up to, you know, to play that game. We do this thing on the show. We're gonna switch topics a little bit. We, we do this thing on the show called five questions, just five quick questions, one word answers. I'll try my best. One word. One word. Road or studio? Studio. Lennener McCartney. McCartney. Most important thing in a song. Cadence, melody, or lyrics?

22:05lyrics. Song you've written your most proud of. Let it be? Sorry. I didn't write that one. Sorry. Right. Oh. Dance with the dance and its disappearance. One word. Gourd Downey.